• Profile picture of xᴇᴀᴅᴀ

    xᴇᴀᴅᴀ 2019-06-19 20:00:27 UTC

    It’s all downhill from here

    3
    • Lmao yes

      2019-06-19 20:06:44 UTC 0
    • So because one man left sn is going to die

      2019-06-19 20:07:21 UTC 0
      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2So because one man left sn is going to die

        It’s not really that Ramox. That man basically was like the one thing somewhat keeping it alive yknow? Then again that was when I last really sat on this site and just watched how it functioned. Ion know much about now

        2019-06-19 20:10:32 UTC 1
        • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀIt's not really that Ramox. That man basically was like the

          And the new users will be free from that

          2019-06-19 20:12:16 UTC 0
          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2And the new users will be free from that

            Free from having an active community to be a part of? And learn from people like Epitaph?

            2019-06-19 20:15:52 UTC 0
            • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀFree from having an active community to be a part of? And le

              While I Amy not be an expert animator myself I have helped a plethora of users
              There are people like explosive and kajiu who are also users who know the basics

              2019-06-19 20:17:53 UTC 0
              • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2While I Amy not be an expert animator myself I have helped a

                As for the community now that epitaph is gone drama should drop by over 80%

                2019-06-19 20:18:19 UTC 1
                • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2As for the community now that epitaph is gone drama should d

                  Drama that happened here came off of discord most of the time, like the most recent incident with pathetic and him.

                  2019-06-19 20:21:55 UTC 0
                  • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀDrama that happened here came off of discord most of the tim

                    Yes. And now we (to the hypothetical audience) can focus on rebuild

                    2019-06-19 20:24:21 UTC 0
                    • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Yes. And now we (to the hypothetical audience) can focus on

                      Why couldn’t you say try and rebuild it with epitaph, like just as a thought

                      2019-06-19 20:27:01 UTC 0
                      • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀWhy couldn't you say try and rebuild it with epitaph, like

                        Despite our methodological differences clashing he becomes too emotional and blame happy when sh1t hits the fan
                        In any case after what he has done to me it was me or him

                        2019-06-19 20:28:21 UTC 0
                        • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Despite our methodological differences clashing he becomes t

                          Ngl you kinda drove him to those points.

                          There’s a reason why I haven’t talked to you much in discord dms.

                          2019-06-19 20:33:38 UTC 0
                          • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀNgl you kinda drove him to those points. There's a reaso

                            I was forced to it
                            He attacked my friends
                            My allies
                            He even attacked me without warning at times!
                            I did what was nessecary to defend myself. He brought all this on himself

                            2019-06-19 20:36:09 UTC 0
                            • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I was forced to it He attacked my friends My allies He even

                              And you were literally plotting against him and trying to get people with you to bring him down! YOU blew a LOT of things out of hand, like the treaty that could’ve fixed maybe some things but NOO you just HAD to keep on going onto him

                              2019-06-19 20:40:49 UTC 2
                              • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀAnd you were literally plotting against him and trying to ge

                                He attacked cookie for that treaty and I gave him a strike. What I did was justified there. He was supposed to behave and I wouldn’t do anything. He broke it. I ended a bs treaty that should have been more thought out.
                                I have enough after the 70 time I forgave that man. After all those chances and being beaten by him because of it. I say I had full right to bring him down a notch

                                2019-06-19 20:43:39 UTC 0
                                • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2He attacked cookie for that treaty and I gave him a strike.

                                  You broke the treaty and drug it on to the point it stressed him out. Even in HOWF we wanted you gone. You harassed him. All because you were waiting for Epitaph to “Stab himself in the foot” You took it too far.

                                  2019-06-19 20:46:23 UTC 0
                                  • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀYou broke the treaty and drug it on to the point it stressed

                                    I broke it because when my friend asked for the parameters of the strike witch by the way when decideding if a strike is valid is a perfectly fine thing to find out he was banned. After that everyone knew the treaty wasn’t gonna work.
                                    And he didn’t follow it anyways.
                                    So I’m not the hero you want
                                    So be it
                                    But I am what this site needs
                                    So you can get out the way of fight me
                                    Both will help me

                                    2019-06-19 20:50:38 UTC 0
                                    • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I broke it because when my friend asked for the parameters o

                                      I am in more right than epitaph
                                      And I am now going to fix this site

                                      2019-06-19 20:51:15 UTC 0
                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I am in more right than epitaph And I am now going to fix t

                                        YOU. AREN’T. A HERO. AT ALL.

                                        I usually never get into sh*t like this but YOU RAMOX. YOU ARE SOMETHING SPECIAL. You always want to fix things when something goes wrong here, Oh I leave, Ramox GOTTA do SOMETHING. Oh Epitaph leaves, Ramox just HAS TO use that to his advantage to FIX what apparently HE caused. Epitaph apparently MANIPULATED people to his side. I barely interact with that man and look what the F*CK I’m doing right now. YOU brought it to the site. YOU harassed the poor man. YOU wanted to tear this man apart. AND YET YOU ARE THE HERO? CAUSE ALL OF STICKNODES APPARENTLY MADE IT DRAMA YOU ARE THE HERO. YOU’VE GOT YOUR HEAD SO FAR UP YOUR A$S IT’S FUNNY. Epitaph is just a human like the rest of us and I’m not simply going to “get out of your way”

                                        2019-06-19 21:00:35 UTC 2
                                        • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀYOU. AREN'T. A HERO. AT ALL. I usually never get into sh*t

                                          Ha I just said I am no hero.
                                          Did you not read.
                                          Your right. I am nothing special until I make myself to be. I am gonna do what you and everyone here is to pessimistic to do.
                                          He brought down my wrath every time I forgave him. I got sick of forgiving him. He never gave anyone else as many chances so why should I. And go ahead. Try to fight I can garuntee you won’t win because I will fight for 20 years if I have to. I am no hero
                                          I am what this site needs
                                          I know how to repair it cause you clearly won’t.

                                          2019-06-19 21:03:58 UTC 0
                                          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Ha I just said I am no hero. Did you not read. Your right. I

                                            I don’t care if you want to fight for 20, 30, f*cking 100 years. I am just defending what I think is right. You aren’t what this site needs. And h*ll I’m not going to try and fix it myself. It’s not a one man job. And if you knew how to repair it then why didn’t you do it. At points Epitaph was trying to redeem himself. You just made it worse. He could be eternally angry at you for something I don’t even know and quite frankly I couldn’t give a f*ck. I don’t care if I do or don’t win. You just need to realize that you aren’t this godsend you portray yourself to be.

                                            2019-06-19 21:11:14 UTC 1
                                            • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀI don't care if you want to fight for 20, 30, f*cking 100 y

                                              I am no go You mistake that
                                              I am a man with willpower
                                              Your correct it’s not a one man job. That why I’ll need the help of users. Hopefully the new ones.
                                              And epitaph redeeming himself always ended in him fighting me.
                                              And I am defending what I think is right

                                              2019-06-19 21:13:18 UTC 0
                                              • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I am no go You mistake that I am a man with willpower Your

                                                That’s the key word
                                                Think
                                                We won’t know until it comes to pass. But I have a good idea

                                                2019-06-19 21:13:41 UTC 0
                                                • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2That’s the key word Think We won’t know until it comes to pa

                                                  He only fought you cause you pushed at him. From what I saw and what we talked about in dms you just wanted people to do your work for you and you come in to finish it off. These “new users” I PRAY will be able to see through you. Cause whatever higher being as my witness I do.

                                                  2019-06-19 21:17:49 UTC 1
                                                  • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀHe only fought you cause you pushed at him. From what I saw

                                                    He pushed me. And I guess you misunderstood the language. I wanted them to assist me if things got hairy. I pray I can do what I need to do

                                                    2019-06-19 21:20:24 UTC 0
                                                    • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2He pushed me. And I guess you misunderstood the language. I

                                                      And speaking of that I almost never talk to you on dms

                                                      2019-06-19 21:22:37 UTC 0
                                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2And speaking of that I almost never talk to you on dms

                                                        Yeah and it’s because of this. This whole situation right here. Do you even think I’d try and associate with you after that? After what you caused.

                                                        2019-06-19 21:25:14 UTC 1
                                                        • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀYeah and it's because of this. This whole situation right h

                                                          After what he caused xeada
                                                          I reacted to his continuing unfair smacks.
                                                          So now I can rebuild what needs to be rebuilt
                                                          You are not going to force me out. My will is too strong

                                                          2019-06-19 21:29:33 UTC 0
                                                          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2After what he caused xeada I reacted to his continuing unfai

                                                            Oh I’m not trying to “force you out” I, really at this point, just want to expose you. You can be whatever you want to be to these new users but I want to be damn sure they know who they are following. Your will can be as strong as it wants but it’s not only me that knows how you really are. I don’t care if you can fight forever. I just know that people will know what you tried to push and what you’re doing right now.

                                                            2019-06-19 21:48:08 UTC 0
                                                            • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀOh I'm not trying to "force you out" I, really at this po

                                                              So you want to pull a Ramox exposure. Interesting.
                                                              I know how I really am
                                                              People just won’t accept that I’m just not a crusader. That being said. They will see me as I am now
                                                              Not the berserker I was. Keep that in mind

                                                              2019-06-19 21:50:56 UTC 0
                                                            • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀOh I'm not trying to "force you out" I, really at this po

                                                              okay xeada, I’m gonna nip this in the bud right now

                                                              “but I want to be damn sure they know who they are following”

                                                              no, I get you aren’t trying to be “malicious” in your eyes, I get it, I do

                                                              but there’s no path this is gonna take that isn’t going to make things worse

                                                              so please, stop now

                                                              I’m deleting any further posts about this

                                                              ANY

                                                              2019-06-19 22:08:20 UTC 1
                                                              • Replying to: Ralph (Developer)okay xeada, I'm gonna nip this in the bud right now "but

                                                                Ralph, this plan of yours to delete drama won’t work…

                                                                It never does. This is medial moderation at most. Instead of actually solving the issue you stop it without resolution.

                                                                Things won’t stop without resolution.
                                                                You only push them further. When bans and punishments are rarely put in place no power is held. People without knowledge will think you’re just like us. You don’t show signs of strength or anything assertive.

                                                                Your solutions don’t work.
                                                                You have to assert dominance and rulership, or assert yourself as silence.

                                                                2019-06-21 05:35:44 UTC 1
                                              • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I am no go You mistake that I am a man with willpower Your

                                                There’s nothing to defend because what you’ve done isn’t right.

                                                2019-06-19 21:18:30 UTC 0
                                                • Replying to: BootlegsnakeThere’s nothing to defend because what you’ve done isn’t rig

                                                  Your emotional right now boot. I have stuck to logic on this. After all of epitaphs actions he had this coming. Sooner or later

                                                  2019-06-19 21:21:00 UTC 0
                                                  • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Your emotional right now boot. I have stuck to logic on this

                                                    Your logic is pretty twisted.

                                                    2019-06-19 21:21:52 UTC 0
                                                    • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀYour logic is pretty twisted.

                                                      I have done everything in my power to make you people see the truth
                                                      It appears I cannot do that to you. So I will head to the new users and to all who ask for advice

                                                      2019-06-19 21:23:23 UTC 0
                                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I have done everything in my power to make you people see th

                                                        Truth is you’re the bad guy, and you’re pretty blind to that

                                                        2019-06-19 21:25:47 UTC 1
                                                        • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀTruth is you're the bad guy, and you're pretty blind to th

                                                          I’m a slightly worse than average
                                                          Epitaph was the villain

                                                          2019-06-19 21:28:18 UTC 0
                                                          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I’m a slightly worse than average Epitaph was the villain

                                                            Epitaph was the villain yet you knew what you were doing to him.

                                                            2019-06-19 21:56:29 UTC 2
                                                            • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀ Epitaph was the villain yet you knew what you were doing t

                                                              Yes. Any good tactic when removing obstacles in the way requires stress.
                                                              I knew perfectly well you are correct however he gave no mercy st anyone else who defied him
                                                              Was I expected to?
                                                              I have said I am no hero.

                                                              2019-06-19 21:57:49 UTC 0
                                                              • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Yes. Any good tactic when removing obstacles in the way requ

                                                                You could’ve possibly killed the man. And yet that’s removing an obstacle. I told you that you were dragging him down and you simply called it karma. Maybe, just maybe, If you had changed something then it could’ve changed something now.

                                                                2019-06-19 22:05:04 UTC 1
                                                                • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀYou could've possibly killed the man. And yet that's remov

                                                                  I he had stopped or just left me alone I would have no reason. He kept pushing me. I wanted this to end but he never let it
                                                                  And if one man leaves for the greater good
                                                                  Sorrowly so be it.

                                                                  2019-06-19 22:07:04 UTC 0
                                                  • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Your emotional right now boot. I have stuck to logic on this

                                                    Your logic is pretty fucked

                                                    Pushing a guy this far, making him leave the only place where he ‘felt special’ then going farther to the point in which he becomes suicidal.

                                                    Do you not feel any remorse? You’ve become eternally hated by him and you keep on going and going and going and it’s fucking terrible.

                                                    Epitaphs actions didn’t warrant anything this bad ramox. But yours will.

                                                    2019-06-19 21:24:12 UTC 1
                                                    • Replying to: BootlegsnakeYour logic is pretty fucked Pushing a guy this far, making

                                                      Let’s make a checklist shall we
                                                      He made people hate spierr
                                                      Bulled cookie out
                                                      Attacked base users galore and
                                                      Destroyed the 1st gen users. Granted some of them had it coming but still
                                                      I’ve only gone after him because of his actions to everyone. He pushed me to this. And now I will rebuild

                                                      2019-06-19 21:27:06 UTC 0
                                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Let’s make a checklist shall we He made people hate spierr B

                                                        1) he didn’t get others to, they just bandwagoned

                                                        2) actually that was me

                                                        3) you’ve got ground there

                                                        4) when

                                                        2019-06-19 21:29:31 UTC 0
                                                        • Replying to: Bootlegsnake1) he didn’t get others to, they just bandwagoned 2) actua

                                                          And bandwagon like that is just a form of manipulation.
                                                          You made moth day. That was really it
                                                          After my 70 forgiving of him or somewhere around there

                                                          2019-06-19 21:31:40 UTC 0
                                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Let’s make a checklist shall we He made people hate spierr B

                                                        You went after him over a f*cking ban. You wanted to get bullet and boot against him. You specifically told me that all you had to do to get bullet on your side you had to get him mad. You told me to assume everyone is an ally to Epitaph unless proven otherwise. Generation 1 is long gone. Who cares. Base users still use the site, they didn’t really care much and at some point it seemed like even he stopped caring. Spierr and Epitaph have made up from what I’ve seen. He’s tried to fix himself.

                                                        You obviously haven’t

                                                        2019-06-19 21:31:27 UTC 1
                                                        • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀYou went after him over a f*cking ban. You wanted to get bul

                                                          Yes. Getting eb in my side was an objective at one point but you clearly running on outdated information there.
                                                          And when he tries to fix himself. Even when I’m not there he causes a drama
                                                          He regresses

                                                          2019-06-19 21:33:32 UTC 0
                                                          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Yes. Getting eb in my side was an objective at one point but

                                                            As we speak I am making a plan to remold myself into a leader that’s 500% more effective than what I am now

                                                            2019-06-19 21:34:08 UTC 0
                                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Let’s make a checklist shall we He made people hate spierr B

                                                        There’s a thing that I like to do. And it’s letting people in power and proper consiousness make decisions rather than self-justice type of thing.

                                                        Like cmon, I remember you saying that you don’t care about how you will end up etc but only manically went after your own goal.

                                                        Consious and logical person would consider both sides and try to make as much effort to reduce the possible damage.

                                                        I kinda talk about it in this
                                                        http://sticknodes.com/members/epitaph200/activity/478533/#acomment-478684

                                                        Kinda. But basically it’s not possible to do everything perfect. If you go with one side, other side would attack the moderation. So we go with fairness.

                                                        Seriously tho, don’t self-justice or do stuff like self-moderating, by enforcing your own rules and punishments. That is hella gay and bad.

                                                        2019-06-19 21:35:06 UTC 2
                                                        • Replying to: arcionekThere's a thing that I like to do. And it's letting people

                                                          Ralph despite best intentions is far to hesitant. Probably for good reason
                                                          However this isn’t self justice this is me wanting to rebuild What I partially broke. I don’t care what happens to me for as long as the greater good is achieved I am at peace. You still see me as fighting epitaph. I am rebuilding. You don’t know this Ramox. I put the pieces together differently

                                                          2019-06-19 21:37:22 UTC 0
                                                          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Ralph despite best intentions is far to hesitant. Probably f

                                                            Being a mod would make things more efficient around here though

                                                            2019-06-19 21:38:22 UTC 0
                                                            • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Being a mod would make things more efficient around here tho

                                                              Thing is, after so many problems. I doubt you’d be one.

                                                              Like people tend to dislike you, attacking mods is often an issue and then rogue modding comes in and shit goes down fast.

                                                              But also A LOT of community disagree with most of your viewpoints, including Ralph. So yea. That’s an issue.

                                                              2019-06-19 21:42:36 UTC 3
                                                              • Replying to: arcionekThing is, after so many problems. I doubt you'd be one. L

                                                                A good chunk
                                                                Main,y xeada, slapstyle (who’s now gone) and epitaphs allies do
                                                                And as I am a mod in some discord communities I know how it should be done

                                                                2019-06-19 21:45:01 UTC 0
                                                                • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2A good chunk Main,y xeada, slapstyle (who’s now gone) and ep

                                                                  I am mod in Amino of open official subcommunity of Stick Nodes and I know we can’t do ridiculous stunts. Especially with negative reputation.

                                                                  2019-06-19 21:51:07 UTC 1
                                                                  • Replying to: arcionekI am mod in Amino of open official subcommunity of Stick Nod

                                                                    I am aware of that
                                                                    I have a negative reputation with epitaphs allies but most of the other people don’t really care
                                                                    However in case I do get admin abuse accusations I have a 6 step plan to make sure I cannot be effectively accused of it

                                                                    2019-06-19 21:54:09 UTC 0
                                                                    • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I am aware of that I have a negative reputation with epitaph

                                                                      That sounds like you plan on abusing power but trying to stay hidden-

                                                                      2019-06-19 22:03:01 UTC 1
                                                                      • Replying to: arcionekThat sounds like you plan on abusing power but trying to sta

                                                                        Heh. No I know when I need to stop (before you say epitaph that was a much different case and he needed to stop smacking me over and over) however I used it make sure I am not abuseing power. So far it’s worked

                                                                        2019-06-19 22:04:47 UTC 0
                                                      • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Let’s make a checklist shall we He made people hate spierr B

                                                        No one gives a sh*t about what he had coming.

                                                        That man’s depressed and you almost pushed him over the edge on multiple occasions. You’re a twisted spycho with no remorse or feelings for your own species.

                                                        You’re a tyrant. And you’ll never have any real followers.

                                                        It’s about the journey not the destination.
                                                        Your destination is to manipulate people, and your journey is based off of ruining people’s lives to instill fear.

                                                        Now, you should get the F**k off this site, or else real hell will break loose for you.

                                                        2019-06-21 05:40:09 UTC 1
                                                        • Replying to: Foxinater101No one gives a sh*t about what he had coming. That man's d

                                                          By who? You? Follows I can get without much problem over time so I really don’t care. I have never manipulated anyone just showed them the facts. That being said. He used his depression to be right every time pushing many people over the edge such as commie and vamrack who he called their depression annoying.
                                                          So id like to see the real hell. Epitaphs followers are gone or disorganized, my enemies have given up, xeada tried but Ralph stopped him.
                                                          What can you do
                                                          You and what army

                                                          2019-06-21 12:52:32 UTC 0
                                                          • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2By who? You? Follows I can get without much problem over tim

                                                            Cause I followed through foxinator. Almost no one else did

                                                            2019-06-21 12:53:08 UTC 0
                                                            • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2Cause I followed through foxinator. Almost no one else did

                                                              Why are you still going on about this on god. Ralph told me to stop to avoid drama you absolute nut.

                                                              2019-06-21 19:28:37 UTC 1
                                                              • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀWhy are you still going on about this on god. Ralph told me

                                                                I was talking to foxinator. Please stay out xeada
                                                                Also your very late

                                                                2019-06-21 19:37:20 UTC 0
                                                                • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2I was talking to foxinator. Please stay out xeada Also your

                                                                  I don’t care if im “very late” this is
                                                                  1) My post and I get the notifications.
                                                                  2) Still my problem cause you said Ralph “stopped me cause i tried.”
                                                                  and 3) You’re still trying to spark drama.

                                                                  2019-06-21 19:39:55 UTC 4
                                                                  • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀI don't care if im "very late" this is 1) My post and I

                                                                    Xeada gone feminist

                                                                    2019-06-21 19:50:28 UTC 1
                                                                  • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀI don't care if im "very late" this is 1) My post and I

                                                                    @ralph Yo you should def lock this thread bruv

                                                                    2019-06-21 19:52:38 UTC 1
                                                                  • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀI don't care if im "very late" this is 1) My post and I

                                                                    It is not my with for drama like you make it out to be however he said something to me and I stated the facts act him. Nothing more nothing less. It’s almost as if you find reasons to accuse me of wanting drama. Nuff said about that. And if you have a problem take it to fix he messaged me

                                                                    2019-06-21 19:57:19 UTC 0
                                                                    • Replying to: Ramoxfire V2It is not my with for drama like you make it out to be howev

                                                                      I really don’t have the patience for this right now. I just woke up from a 12 hour nap. “You and what army” is basically challenging him to fight. But y’know. Imma just block you here too.

                                                                      2019-06-21 20:00:35 UTC 0
    • I extremely doubt that

      Just because one man leaves doesn’t mean a flat line

      Just like how this site will go on after you leave and I leave

      2019-06-19 21:16:42 UTC 0
      • Replying to: Scorching ScorpioI extremely doubt that Just because one man leaves doesn’t

        I’m not saying it’s gonna flat line, just saying it’s just not going to function like before, like most people know it functions

        2019-06-19 21:19:18 UTC 0
        • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀI'm not saying it's gonna flat line, just saying it's jus

          Just because of one man. I doubt that

          2019-06-19 21:31:01 UTC 0
          • Replying to: Scorching ScorpioJust because of one man. I doubt that

            Why are y’all arguing :v

            2019-06-19 21:33:32 UTC 0
          • Replying to: Scorching ScorpioJust because of one man. I doubt that

            Im just saying yknow, since he was somewhat known and did a lot here

            2019-06-19 21:33:40 UTC 0
            • Replying to: xᴇᴀᴅᴀIm just saying yknow, since he was somewhat known and did a

              This dude has not been active in months until now and this site got on just fine.

              2019-06-19 21:43:28 UTC 0
    • Hey, xeada. Can I message you on discord?

      2019-06-21 05:26:52 UTC 0
    • ok

      2019-06-21 20:06:51 UTC 0
    • This thread locked because it’s getting a bit not-good and this was pre-rules established

      2019-06-21 22:59:12 UTC 1